I talked to a lot of women when the WP was sailing along and I never talked to someone who wasn't sick. The only ones who were ok were those who didn't absorb! I did talk to more than one woman that got suicidally depressed and psychotic. It's like giving someone an overdose of barbiturates and telling them it is their fault!
About Wiley Watch
Sat, 10/14/2006 - 5:52pm — debv
Wiley Watch scrutinizes the Wiley Protocol and its stakeholders. Both have proven deserving.
What is the Wiley Protocol?
The Wiley Protocol is a cyclical bioidentical hormone replacement therapy (BHRT), formulated by T.S. “Susie” Wiley and based on ideas she developed under her mentor, Dr. Bent Formby. It prescribes unprecedentedly high – indeed suprapharmacological – dosages of estrogen and progesterone, and is being marketed to the public without advance scientific testing and with no documentation of its effects.
(Dr. Formby worked with Wiley on her second book, Sex, Lies, and Menopause, in which the protocol first appeared as an appendix. It should be noted that he split with her after discovering this appendix. He says that he objected, insisting that its inclusion would be profoundly unethical, and that his objections were met with apathy.)
According to the marketing materials, the protocol is intended “to mimic the hormone levels of youth when heart disease and stroke, Type II diabetes, cancer and Alzheimer’s disease weren’t immediate concerns.” Though they are careful not to claim any cure or prevention of these diseases, why mention them if not to imply it? Wiley's book goes further, suggesting that if we replace declining hormones as we age, the body will be fooled into thinking that we are still young and reproductive, and thus, “we may not have to die.”
It is perhaps understandable when women hear this and abandon their primary care physicians, who refuse to prescribe such an extreme and unscientific protocol based on a "thought experiment" (Wiley's words), and seek out someone who will.
The protocol generates revenue for its stakeholders by several means. Women on the protocol are admonished that they must buy only Wiley-branded hormones from Wiley-registered pharmacies. To do otherwise is to risk their health for a variety of given reasons, themed upon trust in Wiley and only Wiley. She charges doctors for Wiley-certification. She charges pharmacies for the privilege of selling Wiley-branded product. (In fact enthusiastic women are encouraged to solicit pharmacies for registration and, if successful, will earn a commission in the form of free hormones.) Doctors and pharmacists who license the Wiley brand are thenceforth labeled “Wileyized”.
Wiley also charges women for consultation – $250 per hour last we heard – and holds regular support meetings in which she reviews women's problems on the protocol and lab results, and tells them how to titrate their hormones – a role once reserved for licensed physicians.
At one time Wiley was scheming to start her own online pharmacy, citing a potential market of 40 million menopausal women. The status of this plan is unclear.
In the future, we expect to learn more about the “Wiley Protocol for Men” and the “Wiley Protocol for Your Face”.
Who is T.S. Wiley?
That depends on who you ask.
T.S. Wiley has variously described herself as an anthropologist, cultural theorist, medical theorist, scientist, medical researcher, molecular biologist, cancer researcher with a background in evolutionary biology, philosopher, health educator, and guru. She has falsely claimed to have been granted a B.A. in anthropology from Webster University.
Dr. Formby, who has earned PhDs in molecular biology and medical biochemistry, describes her as “an ordinary housewife with an interest in bioscience”. He has said, “I was very surprised to discover how illiterate T.S. was in science and math. She knew absolutely nothing. She did not even know the difference between hydrogen and oxygen or the square root of a number.”
Back in 2000, Wiley acknowledged her ignorance in her first book, thanking her daughter who “spent countless hours explaining physics, chemistry and math to her old mom.” She must have learned quickly, arguing within the span of a single page connections among quantum physics, string theory, and hormones. (These discoveries have not, to date, been peer-reviewed.)
What are the Protocol's Effects?
Only rigorous clinical trials performed and reviewed by experts in the field can answer that question – whether it is beneficial or harmful, safe or dangerous, for whom and under what circumstances.
Not one such study has been performed. When asked why not, the Wiley camp has pleaded impatience. They also seem to consider the public's self-experimentation to be the basis of a study.
Anecdotally, some women have reported beneficial effects from the protocol: increased libido, reduced pain, improved skin tone, higher energy levels, and improved sleep. Others have reported weight gain, balding, acne, depression, anxiety, weakness, heart palpitations, breast inflammation, breakthrough bleeding, headaches, and immune suppression, among other adverse effects. For some women these reactions begin after two or three months on the protocol. For others, they begin almost immediately. One woman reported feeling suicidally depressed two months in (and indeed many have reported profound depression). A number of women found themselves physically incapacitated to such an extent that they could not work, and some say they feared for their lives.
Many women have discovered that, after stopping the protocol, the debilitating effects can linger for years. One woman sought help from a series of doctors but to no avail. “So, I continue to work on this on my own, keeping diary-like records so that I can recognize what causes what reaction. I am determined to get this right, but it has been about 1-½ to 2 years since I stopped the Wiley program.”
These reports do not surprise Dr. Formby, who has described the protocol as “a nuclear blast to the endocrine system” with unpredictable and dangerous effects.
The damage is not only physiological. Women have reported feeling deep shame and embarrassment, that they felt they'd been seduced into entrusting this woman with their endocrine systems and, in spite of their intelligence and care, ended up feeling scammed and violated.
It's not only women who are affected. A number have reported that their young children began to develop breast buds – quite possibly due to the great amounts of estrogen introduced into the household environment. After stopping the protocol, reportedly, the buds disappeared.
How Have the Wiley Stakeholders Responded?
Generally they have dismissed these reports, claiming that these women must have been non-compliant. Women who sought relief from lower doses were often told that they were going to get cancer.
Whenever pharmacists dropped out of the program, the stakeholders would blame them for the problems, suddenly alleging – or was it acknowledging? – bad product. (And then they would urge customers to switch to a pharmacy still participating in the revenue chain.)
Wiley suggested that breakthrough bleeding may have been the result of some kind of shift in the Earth's crust after the 2004 tsunami. When told of a child with breast buds, Wiley insisted that hormones could not be the cause, and that if the child slept in a completely dark room, they would go away.
When public criticism mounted, the stakeholders commenced a smear and misinformation campaign. They attacked the character of these women and questioned their mental health. More than once they disclosed private details of certain individuals' lives in an attempt to embarrass and discredit them. They publicly – and falsely – accused one critic of having a rap sheet with the DEA and FBI. They posted recriminations and pro-Wiley testimonials under fake names. Behind the scenes they sent harassing e-mails and threatened lawsuits. Indeed, Wiley's husband, Neil Raden, a business intelligence consultant, boasted of his viciousness and seems to enjoy calling his wife's critics fat and ugly and witches and cows. He spread rumors that one was frustrated by a secret infatuation with him.
Perhaps the answer is best summed up with a quote from Wiley's publicist, Caren Abdela. After a Wiley presentation in Santa Cruz, when the subject of these women came up, “Everyone had a good laugh about how 'sick' they appear. (pun intended)”.
Why are You Doing This?
Because women are getting ill on this protocol and the public needs to know the truth.
You guys are idiots with too
You guys are idiots with too muh time on your hands. Give up. Get medicated . Go away.
Laurel is a [defamatory
Laurel is a [defamatory term] who started this web site when T.S. Wiley wouldn't let her be businiss partiners in the Wiley Protocol.
No, I started this web site
No, I started this web site after observing how Wiley and her husband treated women who reported having problems on the protocol, including Laurel.
(Laurel, for those who don't know, runs the web site http://www.rhythmicliving.com/ and the message group http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/rhythmicliving, for women trying to recover from the Wiley Protocol.)
I asked her if she wanted to comment on this. She responded, "T.S. wanted me to start the online pharmacy and manage her online presence, among other things. I was distracted by the fact that none of the women seemed to be having success on the protocol, and I began to feel qualms about the ethics and legality of the whole thing. I wanted to remain objective so I always made it very clear to Wiley that I considered myself just a volunteer. And so her husband didn't trust me."
I want to clarify something
I want to clarify something about those top two comments. They were posted anonymously. However, a mere three minutes after the second comment was posted, an e-mail was sent to Laurel of Rhythmic Living that said, very simply. "Buy Suzanne's book, you'll love it!" This e-mail was sent by "tswiley@hiredbrains.com". Hired Brains is the business name that her husband, Neil Raden, operates under. A quick review of the logs verified that these two comments and that e-mail all came from the same computer (IP address 72.205.193.253). The e-mail headers even revealed that the computer it was sent from is named "momofficenew".
Okay, if they want to post garbage like this on my website, and if I can demonstrate that they're doing it, then I'm going to put their names on it. And that's what I did.
Wiley's husband then wrote to me, apologizing and saying that he suspected that one of their kids was responsible for these comments. What's significant is that at that time there was nothing in the public record that indicated where these comments originated from. From the perspective of anyone visiting this site, without access to its logs and without knowledge of the aforementioned e-mail, those comments could have been written by literally anyone on the Internet.
So I replied, "You didn't ask how dared I to put your wife's name on those comments. I guess you knew where they came from as well as I do. What a surprise." He then insisted that their daughter was responsible for these comments.
These correspondences and a number of others from Wiley's husband, incidentally, also originated from the same IP address.
Well, that's their story. According to T.S. Wiley's husband, Neil Raden, those comments were posted by their daughter. So I've updated the comments accordingly.
As a WPS (Wiley Protocol
As a WPS (Wiley Protocol Survivor) as well as a doctor, I feel compelled to comment. Ms. Wiley must be stopped.
I personally used The Wiley Protocol from 2001 - 2004, as well as recommended it to my patients who were experiencing peri- or full blown menopausal symptoms. I no longer do either.
I became so ill from using the Wiley Protocol that it has taken me several years to detoxify and I am still not fully recovered. The Estrogen levels caused me to have severe Estrogen migraines, insomnia, and a 35 lb weight gain, just to name a few symptoms. The toxic levels of Progesterone caused my bones to ache terribly, my hair and eyebrows to fall out, hypothyroidism, lethargy, etc. I took the protocol for nearly 3 years before I realized I was becoming severely debilitated from it. In fact, I became so ill I had to quit school in the middle of my PhD program; had to let one of my employees manage my businesses because I couldn't work; had such severe panic attacks I became almost housebound; got fat and lost my hair; all from trusting a woman who lied to us about her education, her scientific background, tests performed and research conducted on the protocol she was touting as the "anti-aging answer" of the New Millenium.
Ms. Wiley has done us all a great disservice. She has made many of us severely ill. Now, she has hooked up with her fellow B-actress, Suzanne Somers, herself proclaiming to be a "hormone guru" with a "PhD in Hormones", to try and complete the facade and manipulation. STOP!!! ENOUGH YOU TWO!!! WE ARE BECOMING ILL BECAUSE OF YOU!!!
I tried synthetic hormone
I tried synthetic hormone replacement and had several of the debilitating symptoms you mentioned above. Synthetic hormones recked my body. I am now going to start the WIley Protocol. I don't think it's the Wiley Protocol or synthentic replacement that's wrong I think that everyone's body reacts differently to all medications.
Some people's body tolerate different medications while other medications can make the same people become deathly ill.
I don't think it's fair to condem the Wiley Protcol because you specifically had a problem with it. I think there should be an unbias website that people on the wiley Protocol provides their personal feedback, good and bad.
This Wiley Protocol hate website is very distrubing, giving an opion about a personal experience is one thing but completely bashing the whole protocol is just wrong.
Angie Kile
So synthetic hormones have
So synthetic hormones have wrecked your body and given you experiences similar to the women who tried the Wiley Protocol (at presumably much higher dosages). But they weren't on synthetic hormones. They were on the Wiley Protocol, quite likely long before you heard about it. Many of them were in direct consultation with T.S. Wiley, paying her hundreds of dollars per hour.
Given your own experiences, given the reports of horrific experiences by women who have tried the Wiley Protocol, given the verified dishonesty of T.S. Wiley, and given your own acknowledgment that this is something that could make you deathly ill, I'm not sure why you think it's unfair to criticize. I'm certainly unclear on what basis you plan to give the Wiley Protocol a try.
Like many politicians, T.S. Wiley endeavors to scare the shit out of people. She tells women that their lives are in danger, that there is no hope. They don't eat the right foods, they don't go to bed early enough, they have careers instead of babies, they don't spend half of their adult lives procreating and breastfeeding... all this is why they get cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer's, etc. etc.
No wait -- there IS hope. It's for sale, and, surprise, T.S. Wiley is selling it.
You vote for politicians, you buy Wiley's products and services. It's not essentially different.
I wish you the best.
Your website is so
Your website is so important, as the credibility of bio-identicals is being damaged by the unsubstantiated beliefs of T.S. Wiley.
I am the author of "Natural Woman, Natural Menopause and A Woman's Guide to Natural Hormones" and founder of the non-profit Natural Woman Institute (NWI). We give doctor referrals (2000+ on our database) and have worked very hard to put bio-identicals on the map and into mainstream medicine. Now on the one side, there is Wyeth trying to shut down compounding pharmacies, and T. S. Wiley's spreading a dangerous protocol on the other.
We want to help.
I support anyone who can
I support anyone who can help maintain the credibility of bioidentical hormones, and both identify quackery and keep Wyeth out of the picture. I am taking low dose non- cyclical biodentical estradiol and progesterone and it has helped me enormously.
I have been using
I have been using bioidentical hormones non-cyclicly (staticly) for over five years now. I began using them after having a hysterectomy for ovarian cancer.
I use estriol, progesterone, and testosterone. I feel great and my doctor says I'm absolutely in good health. I worked for a compounding pharmacy up until the end of October 2006, and we never would have encouraged such high amounts of estrogen as the Wiley Protocol uses. Estrogen promotes growth!
I think that menopause is a normal part of a woman's life, and that we should not have hormone levels of a 20-year-old, nor do we need to have periods again. I enjoyed Suzanne Somers' first book, The Sexy Years, though I did have those areas in which I disagreed (high doses, periods again). I'm steering clear of the Wiley Protocol.
It makes sense to use hormones rhythmically, but the high doses do not make sense. If someone would come up with a low-dose rhythmic cycling regimen, fine.
Just when I think I'm making
Just when I think I'm making progress with this whole hormone circus, I get knocked back down with questions as to whether I should do the WP or not. i still have problems taking the tri-est, and testosterone, with the progesterone. So, really i have no other choice except to try it, and hope for the best.
For everyone using or
For everyone using or thinking about using these products, you should watch the April 19th hearing about women's hormones held by the United States Senate Aging Committee. Just scroll down to the webcast. It's extremely informative for those who are interested in hearing the evidence of both sides of this issue. At least they could tell us what they're giving us and let us know about adverse events. We should be able to make our decisions based on facts.
http://aging.senate.gov/
I am someone who is only
I am someone who is only seeking the best treatment for my osteoporosis. I am 50, but I am told my bones are like those of an 80 year old. Mainstream doctors tell me to go on Forteo, but that has a black box warning regarding bone cancer. I have just heard about WP, but I don't think there is proof that WP would be risk free, and is there any evidence of it increasing bone mass? I am also considering low dose BHRT as it sounds like a more cautious approach.
I don't think Suzanne Sommers and other celebs who go on WP have advanced osteoporosis. It seems WP is more about trying to have better skin tone and more energy. What about people with more serious conditions such a advanced osteoporosis?
The use of bio-identical
The use of bio-identical hormone replacement has been around long before Somers and Wiley got into the scene. There are multiple physicians who belong to ACAM (American College for Advancement in Medicine) and the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine (A4M)who have been using bio-identical hormones estradiol, estriol, estrone, progesterone, testosterone and cortisol in individualized combinations for over twenty years. These physicians screen their patients, follow them and adjust the dosages according to clinical symptoms and blood work to obtain optimum effects all the while avoiding excess. Sex hormones affect the function of other hormones and body chemistry (e.g. thyroid, cortisol, blood lipids), as well as other organs of the body (e.g. the brain and the skeletal system), so that it is imperative that they are prescribed only by trained physicians and not by lay people who have no in-depth knowledge of the human body and it functions. There are some people, men and women alike, who breeze through the therapy and achieve the desired results without too many adjustments and there are a minority who require closer and finer adjustments because their bodies are more sensitive to smaller fluctuations. The patients that I have worked with have experienced dissipation of the symptoms of hormone deficiency and enjoy a return of the feeling wellbeing which they commonly describe as "I got my life back". They really do look younger and act more vibrant. Yes, the bone mineral density (BMD)improves. We joke that we "grow bones" doing what we do! This kind of result is no small matter and it should not get disregarded just because of claims of damage alleged to have been done by a so-called "protocol"
I realize this note is
I realize this note is almost a yr old, but I had to comment in hopes you might still be looking for an answer. I prescribe BHRT and loathe Wiley-think its giving all of us who use a healthy level of hormones, a very bad name. Progesterone and testosterone are extremely important hormones for bone health. Read "The Miracle of Bio-Identical Hormones" by Michael Platt, MD. He states, and I agree, estogen can be a toxic hormone!!!! hope this helps.
Hi, I have been searching
Hi, I have been searching for Bioidentical that works I believe I will steer away from Wiley . Thanks for your comments and others too. I went to one Dr. and nothing happened when I started. So I waited 3 months and my stomach blew up water retention. He tried to lower it and still no go. I was wondering if I just did not have good compound or what. I need to try again. How about Bodylogic? And what is non cyclicly (Staticly) hormones and what am I to look for and how am I going to find a Dr. to help. Thanks so much for listening. Any comments. D.
It's hard to know where to
It's hard to know where to begin. I am 52 years young and I have been on the Wiley Protocol for five months. I am personally very thankful to Suzy (TS Wiley) that she has made the option of cyclical BHRT an option because it can work beautifully for many of us.
I think it is more important to consider a whole array of factors that are involved in the body's midlife systemic imbalances in a way that the allopathic medical community has yet to do (with some welcome exceptions to be sure!). By midlife, the accumulation of insults to the adrenal glands, the thyroid, the intestinal tract, the liver, the kidneys, the lungs and the brain from commonly used prescription drugs, "food" additives, aspartame, heavy metals in dental fillings, in vaccinations, food, and water etcetera and so forth... have taken a toll on the function and communication of the organs. Many of the commonly accepted (as "healthy") food and lifestyle choices impact the body negatively. Systemic low Ph, (acidity), candidiasis, and sub-clinical dehydration do not register as probable indicators of seriously compromised health ...
Many of the problems said to be a consequence of The Wiley Protocol can also by symptomatic of Systemic Candidiasis - a condition little acknowledged in the allopathic medical community except in its isolated manifestations (ie. "yeast infections", "thrush"). I personally believe that Candida overgrowth is the norm and the real cause behind the epidemic of "hypoglycemia" - basically all of the blood sugar issues which it impacts.
I was lucky to have learned about the Candida overgrowth in my body in time to turn it around in my early 40's and spent the next 6 - 7 years rebalancing many elements of my physiology (quality remineralization, true hydration, beneficial bacteria...) as I learned more about the root causes.
Below - an Excerpt about the Symptoms Caused by Systemic Candida
**************
If there are underlying conditions of systemic candidiasis - fungus has been known to feed on specifically progesterone and turn it into prednisone
In fact, it has been reported by one MD that drug companies farm fungus colonies, feeding them progesterone to make the drug prednisone--which they then sell to consumers as a remedy for everything. Prednisone is just one of the many powerful mycotoxins produced by fungus which can kill bacteria.
This may be another explanation of why so many women are estrogen dominant. Generally these women do not have an excess of estrogen, but systemic fungal overgrowth (Candida) can cause the face to break out, breasts to lose firmness, hair problems, and perhaps most significantly, depression and migraines. In addition to these problems a woman's skin can become so sensitive she can't stand to be touched. The vagina can become so painful that intimacy becomes impossible.
****************
Those symptoms sound to me very much like some of the negative reactions women were experiencing when they started using the Wiley Protocol. Given the high likelihood of pre-existing Candida - perhaps we might consider that the hormones were not necessarily causative for the problems experienced - but were interacting circumstantially with the underlying condition which WAS.
Of course it is the right thing to do to stop throwing anything on the fire (Candida or other foundational imbalance problem) which is feeding the fire - but for your own sakes... if you were able to eliminate that "fire" (- through lifestyle and food changes) and thereby become a beneficiary of the good effects of cyclical dosing of high quality bio-identical natural hormone replacement therapy - Wouldn't you want to have the option still available?
I have been taking care of my own health for decades now because my experience with conventional medicine has been that the drugs prescribed were a stopgap measure that usually brought on new/different symptoms. I also learned that a majority of nutritional supplements were more harmful than healing and painstakingly was able to identify those which worked. Later my constant research allowed me to find out why some worked and others did not.
The protocol outlined by Suzy is a in important resource for women whose quality of life can be dramatically improved as a result of cycling BHRT in doses equivalent to a woman at an earlier stage of life when her vitality is at it's peak.
I feel sincere empathy for women who have negative effects from the Wiley Protocol. I know how awful it feels when our hormones (and all the benefits they are capable of providing) are no longer at work for us - but rather seem to be at war with us.
If I had either known about it or had it been available to me earlier - perhaps I could have prevented mass egg burnout from the excesses of FSH -follicle stimulating hormone- induced by falling estrogen levels - so that my eggs would still be orchestrating most of my cycles.
In the area of Bio-identical Hormone Replacement Therapy - I am concerned that cultivating antagonism between the various methodologies that are evolving in the interest of solving the problem are counterproductive for all of us - finally.
The conventional health care system - the MD's, the pharmacists, etcetera Certainly are "stakeholders" and have an obvious profit motive - yet we are able to grant them the benefit of the doubt when we are in need of relief for a given symptom. From that camp there has been too little choice offered to women if the solution could not be a substance that could be profitably patented.
Suzie (TS Wiley) could have limited her efforts to working to solve her own discomforts and complaints. That would have left her a lot more time to fine tune and perfect her own best system for her personal comfort. It is so easy to label anyone who falls outside of mainstream medicine to be a "quack" - any solution or possible solution that does not derive from there "quackery". However without pioneers - nearly always iconoclasts and/or somewhat eccentric people - no real progress would be possible.
Perhaps the fault lies not as much with the "solution" she has presented but with our unrealistic expectations - either a magic bullet or pill - or nothing at all...
If the Wiley Protocol has not worked well for you - or if you have had new symptoms you attribute to it - I completely respect your right to open inquiry into the subject. A good idea can always be better.
For me - it is an intuitively evident probability that Ms. Wiley has presented us with a very good opportunity and we can all work together for women's right to have choices about our own bodies and to make good ideas - better as we learn.
>>>"In the area of
>>>"In the area of Bio-identical Hormone Replacement Therapy - I am concerned that cultivating antagonism between the various methodologies that are evolving in the interest of solving the problem are counterproductive for all of us"<<<
Hear! Hear! VERY well said!
I have been researching BHRT and the comments pro and con about any particular method would be much more helpful without the drama.
Thank you for a sane post.
Which drama? Indeed many
Which drama?
Indeed many women want to hear about the pros and cons of particular methods -- what works and what doesn't. So I assume you don't mean the drama of women who are reporting unsuccessful experiences on the Wiley Protocol (to put it lightly), as related here, on other sites, and now in peer-reviewed journals.
Do you mean the drama of the purveyors of the Wiley Protocol then harassing those women, personally and publicly attacking them, and spreading falsehoods about them? Who would want to join those women? Should one failed by the Wiley Protocol dare not speak of her experiences? Surely there is relevance here.
When further unethical behavior by the same people comes to light, whether we are surprised or not, what should be done with it? Should we look away, pretend that it doesn't exist? Where lies sanity in that?
I think it comes down to this: Where opportunity emerges, opportunists will target. And where opportunists target, there will be (or should be) drama. The drama lies in whether the opportunists will take over and destroy the potential opportunities for everybody else.
The drama as such deserves no blame, and it would be no service to BHRT if we collectively turn a blind eye to the exploitation of those seeking its prospects (for health).
I would like all women to
I would like all women to know that the doctors do not have enough information to use this product correctly. I have had some serious side effects from just using it a month and a half. Dry brittle hair, whiskers growing on my face, white hairs, can't sleep, dry vagina, severe bloating. I am 50 years old and my doctor decided to use me as a test rat. She kept saying oh, all of them in the office were going to use it but yet are still not using it. I was never monitored on it. No blood testing was done at all. As a matter of fact my doctor put me on it and went out of town and wasn't back when it came time for the second month so another doctor in the office gave me the script for the second month. What a joke. She had no idea what to do. She had to call the pharmacist to ask him about it. I have had severe breast pain ever since I started using it. I quit using it on my own after using not quite half of the second script. My right breast feels like it is full of glass. My doctor says it is because of the hormones I was on and it should go away. I am beginning to wonder if I should believe that. Anyway, I think this Wiley Protocol should be illegal to sell. It has not been tested enough. And is not FDA approved. That book is a joke...............
I think everyone should ask
I think everyone should ask their doctor and know their body before they go and take the medication, everyone i know who has tried the protocal has been fun, actually not fine way better. Your probably taking it wrong or something stupid if your getting sick ,i know your taking ther gnarley madications, don't lie, and you know its messing with it all, so its your fault not TS Wileys. TSWiley you rock my world!
I began the Protocol in
I began the Protocol in 12/08. The first month I was given the estrogen/progestrone treatment. My symptoms with the initial treatment were extremely tender breast. In 1/09 testosterone was introduced. My symptoms increased exponentially, I had extreme insomnia, tender breast, hot flashes, my testosterone went from 14 (when I was tested prior to beginning on any Protocol) to an alarming 640! This reading was with me administering one half of the recommended dosage. The end of March I removed myself off the program. After finding your web site I called Caren at Protocol and asked about the degree Ms. Wiley claimed to have. The answer I got sounded rather questionable. I was told Ms. Wiley, thought she had gotten her degree even though she did not get the diploma. Ms. Wiley, so I was told, had no idea she owed money to the college(this is why her diploma was withheld). Ms. Wiley has attempted to pay the outstanding debt to the school however, the school claims it is now too late for her to get the diploma. A college student who does not know she needs a diploma to graduate; not too impressive! The success of any program is how a patient is feeling, and more importantly the side effect. I could definitely see where continuing with this program would lead; all of my above symptoms increasing plus possibly loss of hair etc. My reason for writing to you is because I hope I can help someone else who has been place on this program as your other letters helped me. Wiley is also claiming you are a disgruntled former employee; they have no way to control you because, on the internet one can say anything without concern about litigation. M.T.
Last night I was suppose to
Last night I was suppose to start my 6th day, of my 3rd month on the WP; I had been feeling awful for a week, to the point that I knew something was wrong. I had called "the" doctor, and he told me to come in and that not everyone does well on the WP. I went to bed and rubbed a reduced amount of estrodial on my arm and put my head on my pillow; I was spinning, I actually thought I might die, and I'm rarely sick. I got up and washed it off. Enough already! This morning I felt better, perhaps it was psychological but I don't think all of it was. I had gained 7 lbs in 6 weeks; my breast felt like I was PG, sore, tender, etc., and I felt very depressed. I hated having my period again...what a mess! My mind was not totally fading, I remember 40 years of tampons...who needs that?
Perhaps women who haven't had all girls could deal with another period in the house, but I've had it and my last teenager is just leaving. I had to buy two new pairs of pants and a shirt because I was heavier, and to add to that not feeling well, it is not worth it. As for going back in to the doctor, forget it. I'm not paying him to tell me to stop taking it. It is not like I'm stopping cemo in the middle of a treatment plan.
I woke up this morning and went rollerblading and got a whole days worth of work done, for a change. Anyone who would go on the WP must really research it out first. I was seduced by it after some sleepless nights and a lot of stress, and I sat at a lunch table with T.S. Wiley, who is actually heavy, most likely due to using her own meds, or eating too rich food with her over-weight husband.
Sorry, but I would just as soon age gracefully and keep rollerblading and working until I naturally can't do it any more.
Sign me, 62 and still moving.
I hope I can write this in a
I hope I can write this in a half way readable manner.
I am so totally exhausted that I can barely type anymore.
I am 50 y/o, been in meno for 1 1/2 years naturally. All organs still intact.
Read the S. S. books and thought I'd try this. My symptoms were:
lack of energy
lack of libido
Brain fog
achy muscles all over.
I paid 280$ for my first consult with doc. The estrogen and progesterone for one month cost around 90$
So a sizable investment.
I was surprised at the amount of cream one had to use. It does not surprise me that the symptoms started getting much worse in hindsight.
The first few days of estrogen, I had a headache. Which I never suffered from previously. But the real culprit came when taking progesterone in the 2nd week. OMG, no sleep at all for 2 weeks. I thought I was going to die. The room was spinning at night and I was totally aware of my labored heart beat. For the first time in my life I was aware that my heart was working overtime! I was afraid I would die of a heart attack. Agitation galore, bad nerves, and extreme exhaustion were the result.
Reading this, I am amazed that I did not really put 2 and 2 together and stop.
Sure enough, after 26 days, I got my first period in 1 and 1/2 years. I had forgotten what a drag it is to have. Only, it never stopped! I am now in the second month of weird spotting of dark old blood. Sorry for the disgusting description, but it is what it is.
I did not want to stop cold turkey, so I bought a second month of hormones, this time for 140$ because doc thought I should add testosterone for more energy. Already in the beginning of the second month, I was balking. And rubbing a lot less than prescribed into my skin. I think my body was telling me to stop. So at this point I am only using 1 line of estrogen every other day and 1 line of progesterone daily and I feel that may even be too much. (Testosterone only in the morning 1 line, and then only when I think of it)
Of course, because of the roller -coaster application, my bleeding is still here. I really want that to stop. I had to do a convention with thousands of people in attendance and low and behold, on day 12 heavy bleeding started right in mid conference. What a nightmare. Thank Goodness, I had on black pants.
Oh, yes my breast also hurt. Like the writer who wrote she felt like she had glass in her breast..yes, that is what it feels like.
But by far the most debilitating effect is the massive fatigue. Fatigue does, in it self , not sound bad if you have never had it. Believe me...you are like dead... there is nothing worse. The word fatigue is not descriptive enough for this state. One could loose ones business, husband and all friends in this state.
I hope to slowly recoup from this episode...and hopefully have no lingering side effects.
God bless us all in this undertaking!